How do people who reject evolution explain the telomeric region in the middle of human chromosome #2?

Question by Dreamstuff Entity: How do people who reject evolution explain the telomeric region in the middle of human chromosome #2?
The analogous chromosomes (2p and 2q) in the non-human great apes can be shown, when laid end to end, to create an identical banding structure to the human chromosome 2. The remains of the sequence that the chromosome has on its ends (the telomere) is found in the middle of human chromosome 2 where the ancestral chromosomes fused.

The detail of this region (pre-telomeric sequence, telomeric sequence, reversed telomeric sequence, pre-telomeric sequence) is exactly what we would expect from a fusion, and the this telomeric region is exactly where one would expect to find it if a fusion had occurred in the middle of human chromosome 2.

Before it was found, scientists predicted that this pattern would be found – because of evolution.

How do people who reject evolution explain the contents and location of this sequence, and the fact that the prediction that it would be found was validated?
Bryce, it seems you do not understand the details of the question.

Best answer:

Answer by Richard
This question belongs in the biology section. Why are you on religion and spirituality? Are you a drooling, brainwashed troll?

Know better? Leave your own answer in the comments!

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12 Responses to “How do people who reject evolution explain the telomeric region in the middle of human chromosome #2?”
  1. Glu††øղ ƒøℜ Puи! ShMєnT ☺†☺ says:

    I think you lost the creationists completely with this question.

  2. Bryce says:

    God uses something that works and used it more than one. That’s like saying that my house evolved from my neighbor’s beause it has the same floor plan.

  3. J V says:

    Most of them wouldnt even try the majority of creationists even the intelligent design mob have limited knowledge or understanding of genetics.

    I personally feel that some higher power / being helped evolution along for humans but I leave that for scientists philosophers and theologians to argue about and believe what should be taught in schools should be science not religion

  4. alwbsok says:

    That’s easy, Goddidit!

    See, this God character can do almost anything, and making something identical in appearance to physical world is well within his reach. Arguments based on observation and synthetic truths such as these will therefore not work. You need a priori arguments based on analytic truths.

  5. Arch says:

    Haven’t you asked this question before? I’m almost sure you have.

    Both Vestigial structures AND the telomeric region in human chromosome 2 are to be EXPECTED if life forms were designed, especially if the designer/s took an “Object Oriented” approach. Let me explain.

    In Software Development, “Object-Oriented Programming” (OOP) refers to a specific methodology of programming made possible by languages like Java and C++. When using this methodology, one write Object “Classes” which contain “properties” (basically variables to store data) and “methods” (blocks of code to perform actual tasks). You can have multiple instances of any class.

    Also, a Class can “Inherit” properties and methods from another class. For instance, lets say I was writing an application that simulated the biological functions of all the fish, mammals, and reptiles one finds at the Tennessee Aquarium in Chattanooga (to which you should TOTALLY go if you have never been … AWESOME!!!!)

    Well, I’d have to be an idiot to write the code for each animal separately. Instead, I would start by writing a Class called “Vertebrate”. Vertebrate would have properties like “vertebrae_count”, “vertebrae_size[]” (it would be an array, so the size of each could be controlled separately), “tail_lenth”, “limb_length[]”, etc.

    Additionally, it would contain “methods” such as “limbGrowth”, “digestion”, “eggProduction”, etc.

    Then I would write classes entitled “Bird”, “Mammal”, “Reptile”, and “Fish”. (I know the original specs did not ask for a “Bird” class, but TRUST ME, the users will EVENTUALLY come back and ask for it, so you should plan ahead.) Each of these new classes will “extend” the “Vertebrate” class, thereby inheriting all of it’s properties and methods.

    Now, you will note that all these classes automatically pick up all of the properties and methods that the basic Vertebrate class used to grow tails. So, when I write the “Primate” class, it will “extend” the “Mammal” class (or possibly some other class which in turn extended “Mammal”) thereby inheriting “tail_length” and “tailGrowth”. In turn the Class “Ape” will inherit from “Primate”, also getting the methods and properties to grow tails. And, obviously, “Human” will inherit from “Ape”.

    Under normal circumstances, the “tail_length” property in the “Human” class will be set very low by the “Constructor” method (every class has one). But in nature, mutations and other factors can cause “glitches” that would not happen in an electronic environment, so occasionally the “tail_length” property gets set a little high in a human, and as the Theory of Intelligent Object Oriented Design would suggest, the person gets a tail.

    The same principle explains why snakes and whales have vestigial hind legs.

    This also explain the fusion of two chromosomes from “Ape” into Chromosome 2 in humans, and offers an interesting insight into the specific method being used to develop our “software”. When we compile code written in Java or C++, modern compilers do something called “optimization”, where in they find the way to compile the code into either byte code or machine language (depending on the language) which will allow the code to run most efficiently. This seems to going on in the development of the code to create life as well. When the Human class was compiled, SOMETHING about an overridden method or something in the Constructor class caused the compiler to do something different with those two chromosomes.

    So, neither these fused chromosomes nor vestigial organs are no obstacle whatsoever to an Intelligent Design model. Lots of code I have written has “inherited” methods it will never use. I’m not going to write everything from scratch. The same goes for who/whatever wrote our DNA

  6. skullhead says:

    Lil outta my lleague so ill let the professional handle it

    http://creation.com/human-ape-fused-chromosomes-paradigm

  7. ROBERTA says:

    You lost any Christian reading this in your first sentence.

  8. Tim says:

    @ Arch: To mis-quote Glutton: “I think you lost the [atheists] completely with [your answer].”

    There are Christians who study genetics and their belief in a creator is reinforced by that study.

    If you check out my answer at:

    http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AkLNCIjW9jpV5AsjU6d_.m7h5gt.;_ylv=3?qid=20130609052326AAkAyn6

    it shows that telomerase research goes back to the 1930’s. As a report said there, by the 1990’s “Telomerase research soon became one of the hottest fields in molecular biology. The implication was that if biologists could use telomerase to offset the shortening of telomeres when normal cells divide, perhaps aging could be halted or at least substantially delayed. Interestingly, Geron Corporation News reports that researchers experimenting with telomerase in the laboratory have already demonstrated that normal human cells can be altered to have “an infinite replicative capacity.” [end report]

    So, those scientists would have to admit that our bodies border on the miraculous, given that if they could find a solution to halt or counter the shortening of telomeres in our cells, our bodies should, according to them, be able to acquire “an infinite replicative capacity;” to just keep living – indefinitely.

    Yet, those same scientists, including those whose commentary may be seen at:

    http://www.wiley.com/legacy/college/boye…

    will readily poo hoo the Bible’s hope of living forever in a paradise earth. [Genesis 1:27,28; 2:17; Isaiah 55:11; 65:17-25; Psalms 37:29; Matthew 5:5; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:3,4]

    The problem that DE and others here show is that they are so entrenched with their evolutionistic views that they cannot see that, as Arch has demonstrated, a creator would not create genetics for living organisms and then decide that he was going to start again from scratch with each form of life. Why should he do that?

    The problem that evolution believers also have is something they call abiogenesis, a term they use to explain the beginnings of life from non-life. Why is it a problem? Because honest scientists admit that the chances of non-living elements at the molecular level forming into amino acids, proteins, RNA and DNA, the building blocks of life in all living things, is a virtual impossibility. If it happened in some ancient primordial soup, why don’t we see it happening anywhere today?

    Another problem they have to explain is HOW evolution has enabled all the different species of life on earth that purportedly started in one form in that primordial soup to develop and cross over from their own genus kind. For example, can they show us how, genetically, homo sapiens came about by jumping that genus BARRIER from the apes?

    FACT: The DNA of any of the apes, whether they be of the genus pan [chimpanzees and bonobos], pongo [orangutuans], or gorillax2 [guess what?] cannot be crossed with the DNA of homo sapiens. Why? Their respective genetic makeups outside of their genus don’t allow them to procreate.

    To illustrate, you can cross a chimpanzee with a bonobo [both genus pan] but you cannot cross a chimpanzee with an orangutan or a gorilla. You might just as well use water as use sperm, because you will get nothing. Explain that.

    So all your pontificating about the identical banding structure of chromosomes and telomeric sequences between apes and humans is irrelevant unless you can explain HOW it was possible for that genetic barrier to be bridged.

  9. Bhbjhbjhb says:

    goddidit, derherpheraderp

  10. CRR says:

    I understand the details of the question.

    Even if a fusion had occurred it does not necessarily mean that humans and chimps had a common ancestor, although it would be consistent with that hypothesis.

    However the evidence for a fusion is actually not strong. If a fusion had occurred there should be thousands of telomeres followed by a similar number of reverse telomeres. In fact there are relatively few and they are scattered on both sides of the supposed fusion site.

    You neglected to mention the putative centromere site. There is a sequence of DNA characteristic of a centromere at about the right place, but that sequence is found scattered through all chromosomes so it is very far from conclusive.

    You will need to get considerably more evidence than this to mount a convincing case.

    But don’t feel bad. Some of this data has only emerged in recent years as better techniques have become available. That’s why it pays to visit sites that keep up with the latest developments, such as http://creation.com

  11. Dr Yes says:

    The think the “telomeric region” is an area in the Middle East.

  12. Davids says:

    After the Fall of Adam and Eve things got pretty ugly, humans mated with apes, gorillas, sheep, you name it. Some still do.

    I think you are not aware that just because I don’t accept the whole package of evolution (with all it’s doctrines) doesn’t mean we don’t know about mutations/adaptations. Right now, there are people with Neanderthal and/or Denisovans DNA because someone mated with a Neanderthal, that’s for sure. Same with much of what you’re talking about. The lines got crossed.

    The flood of Noah happened because demons mated with humans too. Don’t know what that look like genetically but it could be soem of this stuff. Our Bibles say it happened after the flood too, they were called Nephilim.

    The whole concept of the RH factor in the blood of some humans but missing from many others probalby comes from humans mating with Rhesus monkeys.